Brooks and Capehart on Biden's border plan and what Trump wants from his running mate (2024)

Amna Nawaz:

Here to help us further break down the vice presidential picks and other political happenings of the week, we turn to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart. That is New York Times columnist David Brooks, and Jonathan Capehart, associate editor for The Washington Post.

Great to see you both.

Jonathan Capehart:

Hi, Amna.

Amna Nawaz:

Let's pick up where Lisa left off, shall we, on those vice — potential vice presidential picks, the ones being vetted by the Trump campaign, if we put that graphic back up so you can take a look at some of the folks we know they are currently vetting,.

Mr. Trump has said he may announce at the convention. I just want to ask both of you, what is it that you think former President Trump is looking for in a vice president, and who do you think gets the job?

David?

David Brooks:

I will tell him what he should be looking for. I can't get deep inside Trump's mind to know what he actually is looking for.

But if I were him, I'd think, OK, I have got class resentment down. I'm good with that. I — people know where I stand, so J.D. Vance out.

Amna Nawaz:

OK.

David Brooks:

But likability, not so much, so Tim Scott in. And so I would think somebody who would win over people who just are a little worried that Trump's a little erratic.

And I would especially do that because — and I'm a globalist in looking at this election these days — the elections in India, which were so important and should have struck fear into everybody in Trump world, because Modi is a populist sort of authoritarian figure, and he looked like he was just cruising away.

And there was all sorts of people who were not picked up in any of the polling who said we don't want an authoritarian. And I can see that happening here too. So, if I'm Trump, I'm thinking I want somebody who's reassuring to people, and that would be Tim Scott.

Amna Nawaz:

Interesting.

What about you, Jonathan?

(Laughter)

Amna Nawaz:

The laughter. OK.

Jonathan Capehart:

I mean, it's great, David, that you are applying a rational basis to talking about Donald Trump's vice presidential picks.

And I go back to the things that Donald Trump cares about, loyalty, someone who will be extremely loyal to him, do — will do what he says no matter what the law says, apparently, and also someone — and all of these people, have questioned the 2020 election results and have also said that they're not — well, they won't say whether they will accept the 2024 election results.

But the number one thing that I'm looking at is something that Trump always talks about, and that is how the person looks. It's always about, oh, they're out of central casting. People got — some of the Defense Department secretaries, secretaries of defense, got it because they look — Mad Dog looked like a defense secretary.

So if I'm looking at these eight people, the person in Trump's mind who looks like a vice president out of central casting is North Dakota Governor Burgum.

Amna Nawaz:

OK.

Jonathan Capehart:

But my — to my mind…

Amna Nawaz:

Yes.

Jonathan Capehart:

I wouldn't be surprised if Elise Stefanik is the person who Donald Trump picks.

I thought for sure she would have been the next speaker of the House when McCarthy fell, and I thought that Donald Trump would give her the push because he loves her. But maybe this is a better plum. And she has shown that she is willing to sell her soul in past beliefs in order to be in MAGA world.

Amna Nawaz:

As you said, we can't get inside his head, so we will see.

In the meantime, I want to turn back to some policy and some real-world impact in terms of what we saw in Washington this week. There was this big executive action announced by President Biden on immigration. It effectively shuts down the border if the average daily crossings go above 2,500.

And here is how Mr. Biden announced that action.

Joe Biden, President of the United States: Doing nothing is not an option. We have to act. We must act consistent with both our law and our values — our value as Americans. I take these steps today not to walk away from we — who we are as Americans but to make sure we preserve who we are for future generations to come.

Amna Nawaz:

Here now is how former President Trump described President Biden's move at a rally last night in Arizona.

Donald Trump, Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate: Joe Biden's order is pro-invasion, pro-child trafficking, pro-women trafficking, pro-human trafficking, pro-drug dealers. And, in all, it's really they bring death and they bring destruction into our country.

Amna Nawaz:

Jonathan, the president, the White House, supporters of this plan have said he had to act because Congress wouldn't and didn't. We know Republicans walked away from a bipartisan plan months ago.

But walk us through the political calculus here. He took a very tough stance. The threshold is even lower than the one that was in that bipartisan bill, right? But he's angering progressives very much in the process. What is that calculation?

Jonathan Capehart:

Well, the calculation is immigration is — and what's happening at the border is an issue. It is a political issue. It is a problem.

Americans across the political spectrum are concerned about what's happening. And the president spent a lot of time, folks in the administration and Democrats in the Senate, negotiating with one of the most conservative members of the Senate, Senator Lankford, to cobble together the most conservative immigration reform bill we have seen in a very long time.

And Donald Trump, at the 11th hour, picks up the phone — or not picks up the phone — goes on his social media platform and says, kill the deal. And they killed the deal. The president — you could talk about all the politics all day long, but in the end, the president, President Biden, is looking to get something done.

And in the absence of a bill from Congress, which is what you need, because also in that bill, in that bill was money for the border protection, Custom and Border protection. That's not there. So the president's got to do something. And he's not making anyone happy, which, in a lot of ways, if you're not making anyone happy, maybe you have done the right thing.

Amna Nawaz:

David, how do you see it?

David Brooks:

Yes, well, first — the first thing to say is, if you think immigration is good for this country, you also have to think that controlling the border is good for this country.

Without controlling the border, Americans will turn against immigration. So I think the policy is right. But let's take a step back at the entire Biden project. When he was running for office in 2020, it seemed like the Biden project was, I'm a Democrat, I'm not Donald Trump, but I'm not on the left. I'm striking this sort of center-left middle ground.

And on many issues, unfortunately, he's not done that. On federal spending, I would say he has not done that. And, on immigration, he did not do that until this week. And he has been slow to act and at some point said, there's nothing more I can do.

And he was just — he was worried about people on the left getting angry with him. And so now I think he's finally come around because it's just a killer issue for Democrats. And so I think it's — he's approaching the right policy. I just wish he had said, well, this is my project as president to be a center-left Democrat and not a left Democrat.

And I think he's hurting politically because he hasn't struck that. Sometimes, he's done that very clearly, but other times he has not done it as clearly. And immigration is the big issue where he hasn't done that.

Amna Nawaz:

I do want to briefly also get both of your takes on the Hunter Biden trial this week, which was under way. It's a criminal trial on federal gun charges alleging he lied about his drug addiction when purchasing a weapon back in 2018.

I think it's fair to say it was a very tough week, a lot of personal and embarrassing anecdotes and details that came out from a number of people, Beau Biden's widow and his ex-wife — Hunter Biden's ex-wife as well. I'm just curious about how you both view the place that this trial holds right now in our political and social conversations.

And what kind of impact do you think it's having on people paying attention?

Jonathan Capehart:

Well, the place this trial holds, unfortunately, is latched on to the criminal proceedings of the former president, of Donald Trump.

Republicans have been trying to make Hunter Biden an issue for President Biden in an attempt to bring him down and the — quote, unquote — "Biden crime family." But what we have in this trial in Wilmington has nothing to do with any kind of policy or any of the other things that Republicans have been talking about.

We're talking about a drug addict who had a very bad problem, lied on some government forms, is being held accountable, and is being held accountable in a court of law, where all the messiness is coming out.

And I think the one thing that I might inure to the president's benefit and his family's benefit is what they're going through is what millions of American families are going through. And so, in the end, I think this will be — the Hunter Biden court case, this court case will fall into that bucket, and it'll be very empathetic, I think.

David Brooks:

I felt sort of dirty following the trial. I mean, he's a lost soul. I mean, he's — the guy is in the shadow of his father. He's in the shadow of his really kind of amazing brother.

And he's lost, and he has a drug problem. And drug addiction leads you to horrible things. It leads you to wandering around the middle of the night trying to get your supply. And it's unpleasant to look at. And so I just thought this wouldn't have been tried if it wasn't the son of the president, in my view.

And so I just felt creepy that we're all exposed to this. And let him have some dignity. Will it affect the election? Absolutely not. The conviction of Donald Trump I don't think is affecting the election. So whatever happens to Hunter Biden, I don't think it will affect the election. So I don't think so.

Amna Nawaz:

In the couple of minutes we have left, as you know, we have been marking 80 years since D-Day.

The president has been there, used very powerful remarks to remind folks about the fight for democracy back then, and, of course, the parallels today. I'm just wondering how you see those parallels, David.

David Brooks:

Well, partly, the fight for democracy, but before that, you get to the nature of the country.

The guys who we saw on the beach, they had lived through the 1920s. We were in the aftermath of World War II. People were disgusted with authority. They didn't want to — the military, the entire war, the idea of war was horrific, because people had seen World War I. And then they lived through the Depression.

And then it gets worse in like '37, '38. And so I'm sure, these guys, what do they want? They don't want to go out and shoot people and be in an army. They want to have their lives. And yet when history called them, they just came. And they were — it was like a beautifully altruistic thing for Americans to go 3,000 miles across the ocean to liberate Europe.

It wasn't only altruistic, but it was partly altruistic. And so you can't help but thinking about the moral reflection of our generations — and I'm not dumping on the young — I include my age group two — versus what they did. And it's a little haunting.

And then the other thing, the parallels with the — Putin are real. And Biden did a very good job of playing them up. And they should be a reminder that sometimes you have to use violence to preserve civility and democracy. And that's what the Ukrainians are doing. And we should be helping.

Amna Nawaz:

Jonathan?

Jonathan Capehart:

You know, I look at — I think about Bob Kagan and his — the book before this latest one, I think the title is "The Jungle Grows Back."

And he makes an incredible historical point. And that is this — these seven decades, eight decades of relative peace, particularly in Europe, is an historical aberration and that we have been able to maintain the peace because of institutions created with leadership from the United States to be able to maintain the liberal order, the small-D democratic order.

It's all under threat. And it is very easy for the jungle to grow back, meaning, without American leadership, the — NATO could go by the wayside. All sorts of things that we have taken for granted could just fall apart. And that's why this election is so important.

And that's why what we saw at Normandy yesterday was so — I mean, it brought tears to my eyes to see these veterans, but also, to David's point, to see the sacrifices that they made, particularly the Black veterans that were there. It was a very proud moment as an American.

Amna Nawaz:

When history called them, they came. It's going to stay with me.

Jonathan Capehart, David Brooks, always good to see you both. Thank you.

Jonathan Capehart:

Thanks, Amna.

David Brooks:

Thank you.